On this episode I spoke with my cottage baker friend Noel Deeb. Noel is a baker, mother, and owner of El Bread Shop in Louisville, KY. Noel is part of our Instagram sourdough community who I’ve been following for years. She is someone I’ve commented back and forth with, solicited bread advice from, and although we’ve never met in person, I’ve admired her as a stay at home mother, self taught sourdough baker, and even more now, as she has shared her journey to becoming a cottage bakery operator.
We continue our focus on cottage bakers with my interview with Noel Deeb. Originally starting as a creative outlet, Noel tells us how her sourdough baking eventually grew into her cottage bakery - El Bread Shop. Noel talks about her original sourdough inspiration, what motivated her to start her business, and some helpful practices and tips for starting a cottage bakery.
Transcript
[0:00] I was painting and I had to kind of gradually let that go, like as we were adding more Children to our family.
So I really just needed to carve out a space to be creative still.
And that year 2015 of like us feeling desperate, I really felt like, you know, I was just looking for something.
Start tasting how riel fresh grain taste compared to like stuff.
It's from sitting on the shelves and and also just like after making that first low, even though I remember many costs words and,
like burning my hands and being really difficult that it was just like on immediate addiction, you know, I was like, I hate it. I hated that.
[0:41] Music.
[0:52] This is the sour dough cast the show about the innovators and leaders and creative Trail blazers in Sourdough community and the stories behind.
[1:02] I'm Mike Hilburn. And on this episode of The Sourdough Podcast, we continue our focus on cottage bakers with my interview with Noel Deeb.
Originally starting as a creative outlet, Noel tells us how her sourdough baking eventually grew into her cottage bakery, El Breadshop Noel talks about her original sourdough inspiration what motivated her to start her business and some helpful practices and tips for starting a cottage bakery.
[1:30] I wanted to give a quick shout out to my nearly 1000 new Instagram followers, most of you finding me since my last interview with Adam Pagor.
Thank you to everyone who sent me such encouraging messages and most of all, thank you to those of you who have been sharing the podcast and helping it grow so much these last couple weeks.
[1:51] If you want help the podcast grow, be sure to subscribe, rate and review us on iTunes.
Additionally, another easy thing you can do is to take a screenshot right now, even give you permission to pause the podcast.
So go ahead and share it on Instagram and be sure to attack me.
I love her sharing your posts. And, of course, it's super helpful and sharing the podcast with others.
[2:13] And, as always, stay tuned. After the podcast for new music from Western Perry.
[2:18] Music.
[2:37] My guest today is Noel Deeb. Noel is a baker, mother, and owner of El Bread Shop in Louisville, Kentucky.
Noel is a part of our sour dough instagram community who have been following for years into someone. I have commented back and forth with solicited bread advice from.
And although we've never met in person, I've admired her as a stay at home mother, self taught sourdough baker and even more now, as she shared her journey to becoming a cottage bakery operator.
Well, thanks so much for coming on the podcast, and it's still great, actually. Speak to you face to face virtually yeah, super cool. I kind of in a way, I feel like I'm meeting a pen pal.
Not that that's a ever had that situation being total or but, yeah, I know. I feel that I feel the same way.
I was like, I don't I don't remember specifically like when we started following each other.
Um, I had to be early on, but I don't remember.
It's probably like this with a lot of other people I would imagine, like in our little sourdough community, but like I have this, like, small group of people who have been following kind of since I started baking.
And Ah, and I remember when, or even like, why, exactly? I started following them.
[3:50] Um, but you're one of those people that have been commenting with and sharing info back and forth whips for so long, so I mean, I really Yeah, I guess that I feel like I kind of know you already kind of a pen pal sort of thing.
So yeah. Um, but anyway, I've really been looking forward to having you on the show, Noel. Thank you.
[4:09] Before we delve into your cottage bakery journey, maybe you can tell us about yourself. Me for, like, our audience who doesn't follow you.
[4:19] I don't live in in the in Louisville area. Tell us maybe a little bit about yourself in your background. Yeah, sure.
So I'm not from Louisville. So I guess I could start with how I got here.
Um, I I grew up in Wisconsin, and, um, I was a brief stuff for 10 years from the age, Like 17 total was 27.
[4:44] I went to college for a few years. I never end up graduating.
Um, I don't really know. What I wanted to do was into art.
Kind of was in the art, like, for a really long time and ended up figuring out that there's not really much you can do with that unless you're gonna be a teacher or something.
So I we had our first,
Ah, before that I met my husband and, um, 2004 and we were doing we actually met in California.
We were both doing urban ministry and Oakland and really, wow.
I mean, Oakland was a very different place back then.
Oh, I mean, compared to Louisville or, you know, it's it's Yeah, West Coast. Yeah, East coast. I mean, why I went there from Wisconsin. like a small town.
So it was just kind of one of those. Like, I don't know what to do.
I'm gonna take a year off and do this thing in Oakland and just kind of figure out, um, For what?
My interests are basically outside out of our and my husband, who's from Louisville, did the same thing. And so we met there, and I ended up moving here like we'd.
You know, we ended up obviously together, and I moved here, and, um.
[6:11] So we have fast forward a little bit. We had our first kid in 2010 and at that point I became a stay at home mom from a barista.
So I didn't have to, like, leave any serious job, which was kind of nice, but uh huh.
[6:30] And then we have our second kid around 12. And at that point, we had started the adoption process.
And so it's something we knew we wanted to do. And so 2015 is when we got on a plane, went to China, you know, picked up our someone. He was just about two years old.
We brought him home. Um, but the catch is I was also 32 weeks pregnant on that plane, so we ended up going from 2 to 4 kids in, like, a two months span of time.
And, I mean, nothing could have prepared us for that. It was the following two years were literally just insanity of you.
Just, like, slowly had to dig ourselves out of this hole and, um, having a newborn, you know, plus a kid who was obviously adjusting pretty dramatically to a new life.
And we didn't mean we didn't sleep for, like, 18 months, and, um, that was insane. But we gradually kind of got our health back together individually and like as a family.
And it was in 2000 and 16 that I went on my first kind of like retreat by myself.
And on my way out of town, I stopped at a local bookstore.
[7:54] I, uh, grabbed a book off the show because it just in big letters Said said our dough and I was like, huh? Interesting.
And at that point, I had, like, I try to start her and just failed, maybe really crummy bread out of it.
Um, no pun intended on. And, uh.
[8:16] So the book was, you know, Sarh Owen's book, obviously, I took it on this retreat with me and just, like, read it front to back over and over again.
But you had no prior to that you had, like, no context for what was your context for sourdough?
[8:31] Um, I mean, like I said, I had kind of tried to start her out once or twice.
I didn't totally which is doing it not know, like education or anything.
I just like it was like, I think I know how to do this. And I really did not. So it did not last, um.
[8:49] So again, I think I'm getting ahead of myself in my telling my whole story right now. No. Go for it.
Oh, so that was kind of remember, like, 2016 was like, the first year that I've baked my first, like, pretty legit loaf of bread.
Um, And I had a friend who had been baking out of the 13 book, and he would bring us loaves of bread. And I was just like, these loaves are insane. They're so good.
And I remember, like, looking at the recipe and just being like, um, yeah, you're crazy. Like Howard.
[9:19] Ah, he's probably some single guy.
No, kid. And he says all the time.
Well, kind of you, just, like, perfected everything you put his hands on.
It was like roasted on coffee. And I was, like, the best cop I've ever had, you know, just very particular with the way that he did things, But yeah, I answered your question.
Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, that's kind of kind of where you came from. You know, you're you're start. You started your family.
You found Sarah Owen's book, which is pretty amazing book to start with.
That's not an easy or it's pretty intimidating itself.
That book there's, like some very like complex, you know, amazing recipes with just, all these different types of ingredients.
And, yes, that's why I was attracted to It was, honestly, the cookies. Unlike what could mix our dough cookies. I'm gonna buy this book.
What would you say? What kind of like experience has had you had prior to that or what? Wouldn't you think?
Kind of made sourdough baking even a pill to you in the first place.
[10:30] Hi. So I did leave out. I mean, I I said that I was like, really in the art I was painting, and I had to kind of gradually let that go, like, as we were adding more Children to our family s.
So I really just needed to, like, carve out a space to be creative still.
[10:47] And that year 2015 of like us feeling desperate, I really felt like, you know, I was just looking for something, and I had already kind of, um, had these, like, kitchen and projects that I,
was doing like kombucha and, you know, fermenting vegetables.
And, you know, I was making me all our meals and stuff, and I enjoyed that.
And so it's kind of like, just like the next thing, you know, like we eat, you know, bread. Once you start eating this sourdough bread, you taste other bread. You like this?
Like you just kind of can't go back, you know, um, start tasting how real fresh grain taste compared to, like, stuff has been sitting on the shelves, and, um,
So I think that, you know, once and also just like after baking that first low, even though I remember many cuss words and,
um, like, burning my hands and that being really difficult that it was just like a new immediate addiction, you know, like I hate it.
I hated that. But yeah, I just posted a picture of your first loaf.
Yeah, I think when I was thinking about this interview and like when I was talking to my husband, like, when was it?
Because also, with that hard of the year for us, it's, like, kind of a blur.
I was like, I think it was in 2016. And so I had to look it up. And I mean, I remember looking at the picture. I totally remember that moment.
Looked about 10 times better than the first loaf I pulled out of my.
[12:12] No, I mean, I could definitely relate to that kind of desire toe, you know, fill this like creative void.
We were I remember when I started baking, you know, I'm gonna get a small apartment or or we started.
We had our first kid, and I also decided to stay home and yeah, and there's, you know, there's kind of limitations on on space and time and energy.
And like you said, you know, you gotta eat and myself eat good food, and,
yeah, and there's just there's nothing like that kind of first experience of,
opening that oven and or popping open that Dutch oven lid and seeing, you know, something actually rose without yeast and artificial are manufactured yeast in it.
So, um, I can totally relate.
So you made the leap, though. You are. You're a cottage baker.
Now, um, what was there was, like, one motivating factor or kind of push that made you decide. Like, I'm going to go for it and start selling my bread.
[13:20] Yeah, I think the I mean, the motivation was I had, like, slowly started, you know, putting our kids in school.
And I think when my three boys were in school and I just had my one daughter at home, I just started to think, like, what am I gonna do because she's gonna go to school in, like, the next two years, you know? What am I going to do?
I don't want to You know, I'm not gonna go back to being a barista. I don't have a degree in anything.
Um, I don't want to leave the home, you know, ideally, I'd like to do something when I'm still very proactive with my family.
Um, I just didn't like the idea of, like leaving, you know, to work for the day and then coming home. I just felt like, more stressful and so,
And that was around the time where I really started. Enjoy baking bread.
And so it just kind of, like, made sense to move in that direction.
Um, and thankfully, we have been.
[14:14] A part of the same community for I mean, I've I've lived enough for 14 years and, like we've stayed pretty much in the same part of town and like, have been part of the same church.
And I've had many of the same friends that whole time.
And so I just had, like, a really good base of people to, like, try things out on who I knew.
We're gonna be excited, Um, and so I just gradually I put myself out there more and more like, I mean, it was definitely baby steps.
I never felt like I needed to put all this pressure on myself toe do more than I could.
And I mean, the time was when I felt like I wanted to take a big jump, my husband and that was always like, Well, what's the rush like, You know, just do it like, take your time and do it slow and do it right, And you're right.
[15:05] I don't, uh I don't need, like yourself. 12 loaves of bread when I haven't even sold, you know, like, four.
You know, were people, like, approaching you and like, banging on your door?
Where were we? Your friends, like getting a taste for it.
And how did that kind of what made you think that, like, I was It was it just kind of a spontaneous thing, Or I think it was like a I Should it be nice to make a little bit of money And, like, at least enough to, like, paper.
The stuff that I'm buying, like flower. And And so what I did is I first just started posting on, um, her church's Facebook.
Pay it like Facebook page, and, uh, I got a great I mean, I sold more through that than instagram at first.
Um and so I just did that every week, and I mean, it was like.
[15:59] Eight loaves of bread. That was kind of like my cap at that point, because I think I was only doing two at a time, which is I know, pretty normal.
But as I kind of progressed, I ended up being able to figure out how to do five at a time. So that was really nice.
Um, so I do like eight with my goal, and I, like, hit that goal. And I just, like, keep doing eight for a while. And then I kind of just gradually would, like, take more orders, Honestly, Like sure I can do 10.
I can do 12.
Um, but.
[16:34] Yeah. So I would just a similar model to what I do now is I just I just baked, You know, I bake it and people either pay me ahead of time or they bring cash, and I'd literally just set it out on my porch.
Um, and it's Yeah. So Well, let's go back a little more.
Maybe we rewind a little bit too, Like, kind of like the mental kind of decision making process, because it's actually really interesting. Kind of like exchange with the lady.
Just recently, after my interview with Adam picker, And, uh, she kind of took his quote of juicier work carefully to heart.
Um, and but she did it by, like, deciding actually not to sell her bread too. Like a local CSA.
Um, she said it kind of like, kind of felt like at the time it was gonna take too much time or energy and maybe even, like, enjoyment away from baking for her and some other reasons as well.
But, like, um, I'm just many things like, Wow, you know that, like.
[17:43] I think that, like, for a lot of us, there's like this like, Oh, I found something that I'm good at our enjoy for doing with my family, Um, where you know and like, But that doesn't always necessarily mean that, like, there's another step to take.
You know where you have to take that step. I think people like maybe sometimes put that pressure on themselves.
This woman, for example, you know, you know, took that advice and, you know, made a healthy good decision.
Um, I guess what I'm saying is like a lot, I think a lot times by it's like saying yes to certain things.
We have to kind of say No to other things, Um And so I guess my question would be like, did you find that?
It just fit your life like, really well. And that's why you decided to do our were there. Certain things actually had to, like, say no to to kind of pursue this path.
[18:36] I don't know if I really had to say no to much. I mean, I wasn't besides being a stay at home mom, which obviously, you know, it's like it's so much work.
But I I think I was choosing, Basically was just like saying yes to like, carving a space for what I like what my passions are in my family, you know, within that space in my family.
And I'm sure, you know, it's I guess, like saying no to time with my kids.
Maybe at this point, because because I'm doing it more so, which is, I guess, like a conundrum. Spending more time like being with my family, but having to say no to my family.
Um, so, yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know.
I don't I don't think there's been a big thing that I've had to say no to.
Yes, but I mean, I think to certain that always has to kind of, like, fit within, like the rhythms that you already.
Yeah. It's like saying I'm against, like, saying no, like, I'm not gonna bake this when I'm not gonna do brothers right. It's too much. I'm tired like needs. We need to like, kind of reset.
So, you know, being in a place where I can say no when I want to as faras, like knowing what our capacity is or what my capacity is, that's, you know, different every week, so.
[19:54] Yeah, and I feel like I feel like a lot of times cottage bakeries, like are are a path that people choose because it does work within rhythms that they have established, and they do have space for it.
Um, and there's a kind of maybe, in some instances, like a minimal you no cost to it as far as like time and things have to give up.
Um, kind of reminds me of like, uh, you had a post a few months ago, and I think it was just picture of you.
It was, like in September, and it was like you had said something about you had officially put EL Bread out into the world and in April, and you just found out you're gonna have another baby.
[20:38] Yeah, And on top of that, you were moving and renovating a house. And, yeah, uh, can you kind of reminisce about that?
Because that's like, you know what it sounds like he decided to make this leap to cottage baking, and then boom, boom, boom, boom. All this stuff can stacked on top.
I mean, this past year was a very big year for us, for sure.
We had in the moving thing is totally another thing that, um, was like, pretty much everything.
Just been perfect timing as far as where el bread is now, um, way have been wanting to move for a while. And just like couldn't figure out where we wanted to move, we knew we wanted to stay close. But we also, like, wanted to do kind of a work live space.
Um And so because we're moving and because, like, the same, I'm like, I want to do this bread thing. It was just perfect. Oh, plan for that.
Um, I really enjoyed kind of seeing that your house come together and kind of how you created that space.
Yeah, for your big day. And just, like, planned it into the in. Probably taking away the story from you, But I could I enjoyed seeing your vision fine. Together.
[21:50] Yeah, thanks. I mean, my it was It took us, like, 18 months to remodel this house. And thankfully, we had we had two other houses that we could sell.
Like the house we lived in prior to this and in the house, our first house that we bought, we never sold.
So we were able to just like you consolidate and make this beautiful space.
And we're bottle and for the oven.
And like, for the, you know, for your bread's bread work. And so but yeah, like the beginning of the year, I had all these plans for myself. Like I'm gonna finally, you know, get healthy.
[22:27] My youngest is four. She's manageable. Like she couldn't do our own thing.
And then it's like, I'm not gonna cuss on your podcast. But it was definitelty an "oh sh@# moment"
It was really hard pill to swallow, obviously unplanned but super in love with our daughter. I mean, she's two months old now. And Pearl, right?
Yeah. Pearl. She's actually made our lives easier, which is probably sounds insane to most people who don't have five Children.
But hold I mean, all the kids lover, and they all take care of her. I mean, I'm I'm like, the most hands off with the newborn that I've ever been.
You know, they're my 10 year old, literally, Like, walks around with her. And, um, Sue is her when she said so.
But that was a big like I mean, once I got over the kind of I was, like, sad for a while. Once I got over that, I was like, I'm still gonna move forward. Like I'm not gonna let this slow me down. There's no reason to.
I mean, I'll just take it out of pace that I can handle.
And so Ah, yes. So I just kept moving forward with the bread idea, and, um.
[23:44] We Yes. So I guess I kind of launch in April.
And then we ended up moving in August, and that's when you had the Rofco delivered, like, right before that.
And so I was able to kind of, like, get, you know, get started right away on baking more. So So.
Yeah. Kind of moving, more, I guess into, like, the operational side of the bakery. Um, yeah. You You bought this Rofco.
[24:11] That's I mean, that's kind of like a big that in itself is a big step because they're not cheap.
And you're, you know, kind of making this educated. Guess that you're gonna be able to fill this Rofco and sell all the bread in it. Um.
[24:29] You know, I like you know, a lot of people have, like, we'll save up to do it or could say, Well, I'll buy a Rofco.
What? Maybe what made you decide that time was you were just You just committed It sounds like Well, to be honest with you, Mike, I did not buy my Rofco.
Somebody bought it for me. Whoa! Very, very generous.
And that's so cool is not like I I'm not bragging whatsoever.
I'm completely humbled by this, but I've I mean, my I've had the put very little money into El Bread, again.
It's like the community around me they, like, believe in it so much that I mean, I, you know, I asked, appears to help me with my grain mill, and they just shortly I will, despite for you.
And I'm like, Whoa, it, um So there's been, like, other stories like that where I'm just completely like I don't know how to respond to this, you know, I'm just tumbled.
And so it's It's very motivating, too, of course, is, um they believe in it enough to to support me in that way.
Um, are I mean, community at large, like the city of Louisville.
[25:43] There definitely are some good and great bakeries, but there's nothing like the current condos grain movement, bread movement.
So, um, yeah. So I think there's there's been, like, a great response because of that.
That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Um, so all of that, you know, could be you know, all these things could fall into place, and you can have all the people banging down your door.
Uh, but you still gotta, like, take steps to legalize it and make, you know, in, like, apply for this process, which is I understand.
Just became legal, like the cottage food operation in Kentucky. Um, what was that experience like for you like?
Sending in applying for permits and paying fees. And all this stuff was it an easy Process, or?
[26:38] If you want to start a college bakery, you should move to Kentucky. Because I have I had to do next to nothing to do it because because it's a new law, which I don't think it's gonna stay that way.
Of course, I think they're gonna, you know, it's gonna they're gonna catch up to you.
I don't think a lot of people are doing yet either. But so when I had decided that I wanted to do a cottage bakery is actually when I saw, of course, Bonnie, I caught her on instagram. I was like, What is this lady doing? How do I do it?
And I looked into it like, Oh, cool, I can't do it like Kentucky doesn't allow it.
So it was very depressed, really. But it's like basically, you had to have a completely separate kitchen.
Um, but they changed the law.
It was like I was like, last year. Maybe it was like 2018.
And to make it they basically it's like opened, opened it up more.
It was more restrictive. And so, um, at this point, all you have to do is pay.
Like at the beginning of this year, They They said you had to pay $50 registration. That's it.
So they don't Yeah. I mean, they do say, like, you know, labels and that kind of stuff, but they don't, like, inspect.
You don't have to have a separate kitchen, and you don't have to, like, have a certain washing system. Are you know, all that stuff. So it's It's fairly simple right now. Yeah.
And in your how Who are you allowed to sell to anybody you want?
[28:07] So, yeah, that's I can't sell to retail, um, places. So I think generally it's the same. Like I could do, you know, markets and sell from my home.
I can't ship across state lines, which is not a problem, but,
Um, yeah. So basically, people can come and pick it up, and I can do market.
Yeah, and then because I have also I have I've started the process over here myself in California and have not had a similar experience.
Thus far, knock on whatever.
Barely just begun it. But, um, yeah, there I'm.
[28:48] Been illuminated on kind of some of the struggles or, you know, that other people have gone through in my county, And,
I guess that's kind of like part of the problem, I guess, is that they vary from county to county to state, state and, you know, city even.
You know, the city, you might your state might legalize it, But then your county, my obviously have different health code regulations, and then your city even might even have different.
You know, the codes that you know, restrict greatly, like possibility of people even coming to your doorstep to pick up bread.
So, yeah, it's really interesting. Like, once you get into it and, like, start looking, you know, behind the curtain, like it's a lot of that kind of romantic idea of, you know,
I'm gonna have people lining up in front of my house around the corner, man.
Yeah, that always is that that's not that easy, but that's that's that's encouraging that it's been pretty pretty smooth for you.
Yeah, I definitely needed that. I'm like, I just want to ease into this. I don't wanna have to do too much work at this point, but it's good.
So can you describe a kind of a typical baking week for you?
[30:11] Yeah, I don't I mean, it's this I kind of hit this year running, which I had sort of planned to do.
I, you know, obviously took a little time off when Pearl was born in November, December, and I Right now I'm just sticking to I bake on Tuesdays and Fridays.
So, you know, obviously that means I'm working half a day on Monday and then half a day Thursday as well. So and so far, it's been pretty good.
I do like the bread Club thing on Tuesdays, and I've had a good response with that.
And then I do just like the kind of whoever wants to grab bread on Fridays and my like.
Like I said, I've kind of just, like, made small goals for myself.
You know, I just keep making small goals for myself, and I haven't the, you know, the goal that I made when we moved and for this year specifically, it's just like the amount of loaves that I sell.
And I'm you know, every week I do sell like a little bit more.
And so that's again very encouraging. Um, how many loaves are you baking these days?
Um So with the two days it's around, Like last week. It was 50 for like, the whole week.
Um, so I did. Yeah. Um.
[31:39] Which is great. It's just cool. I mean, you're kind of in this right now where you're, like, kind of building and how many you make.
It's cool to, like, make two and then feel super comfortable is making two, and then you up it to four.
And then so, you know, I made, like, making 18 lows to me right now. It doesn't feel like anything. You know, that's just really cool to be there, I'm doing it? I'm like, I'm not stressed out.
This feels like, totally natural.
And so yeah, just It's just like a really cool place to be.
[32:10] Speaking of Yeah, of, like, scaling. How is that process been, like.
[32:16] Doubling and then doubling again And, like, have you been have been challenges there you've experienced, like, personally, I've like, yeah, like, right now, you know, I just I did again, Just like what you're saying.
I kind of did you know, I was doing two for a long time. Then it it four and then I just said, Well, I'm gonna try eight, and now I'm doing 12 is.
[32:40] But I found that, like, kind, like the timing of the bulk fermentation and shaping is kind of tricky to do. All of all, 12 at one time on one table?
Uh, yeah. You have similar challenges. Oh, yes.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, remember when I first started kind of doubling while I was making him like, this is not,
as easy as making just two or or, um, so I mean, I've had I've had a few struggles, you know, just with the cooler weather and this this past month, and we kind of talked about those things.
But it's I mean, it's still you just always learning and trying to figure out, like, the best way to do it with the environment and how much you're making.
Um, I think the biggest like the thing that I struggle with most honestly, it's like scaling that much dough.
I feel like I don't And I'm hoping over time like that will come more naturally.
But just what I'm trying to like scale the dough before, um, before it's, like, pre-shaped and bench rested, and stuff I feel like I'm just like chopping the crap out of me like this.
I feel like this. It isn't good to be like cutting it up this much.
[33:53] Um, but um, Well, the Wandering Brooke wanted to know what?
How many types of or how many different types of loaves you bake.
Um, and I guess how do you time it all, But how many are you making?
A lot of different types of bread or you sticking to just one kind of country loaf recipe? so I.
[34:17] What I have kind of been doing is like my standard city loaf, and then one flavored type of loaf.
So I'm the past. Like since the beginning of this year, I have actually been in three types, which is not normal, but I've been doing like, a very small amount of sandwich.
Does their sandwich loaves, like six sandwich loaves and then, which are actually everybody needs to get into sandwich loaves because they're, like, so easy.
I mean, you just plop the dough into the tin and, like, let it rise.
Yeah, I've seen your's they look really delicious.
Thanks. Um, so it's typically, two.
I mean, if I'm, like, having a really, if I'm like, just want to sell some bread and don't want to put too much effort, That's like when I'll just do the the regular, you know, city low.
But yeah, um, you kind of alluded to this little bit, but can you tell us a little bit about your local grand economy? Is that does?
Does it exist? Is a burgeoning as a growing is what's kind of going on in your area and in Louisville.
[35:29] um, there's not much like I said, There's one place that mills flour called, Louis Mill.
And I actually got my flour from them when I first started, and they're really great.
I think I'm actually not really sure where they get their wheat Berries from, but there's not. Yeah, there's not much.
I mean, I don't know if it's cause we're, right in the middle, the country, It takes a long time for everything to get to us, but it's I feel like it's kind of gonna be a slow progress.
I know that, um, and I feel like you're you're closer to the Grain belt than than we are, but yeah, I mean, you know, Nebraska and South Dakota.
And you know, there's obviously wheat coming from there. And there's, um, even maybe parts of Minnesota.
[36:21] So but nothing like in Kentucky. Um, and even, you know, obviously North North Carolina.
South Carolina so There's stuff around.
Yeah, but yeah, I've had similar issues with sourcing my floor.
I mean, I would love to use a California grown and milled flour, but no, I'm just I'm,
just far enough out of like the Bay area and just far enough north of Southern California that I'm like in the middle of no man's really nothing new. What is going on here?
Um What? So what kind of flowers are you using these days?
[37:00] I'm still kind of getting flour from, like, several different places.
I get my main bread flour from Lindley Mills in North Carolina.
Um, actually, I believe I found out about them through like Artisan Bryan's Instagram, and then they, like Lindley Mills is awesome.
They heard that I needed flour and they like, immediately. We're like, Hey, let's talk like that's what I need is someone just, like, basically, tell me what I need to do.
You know, I have enough to think about that. I'm like, What should I do?
So I get my main flour from them, and then I kind of get my my, uh I mill all my own whole grains.
And so I usually get my wheat Berries from, like, different places I've got it from this like this Amish community in Indiana, to Great River milling in Wisconsin to,
Um, can't remember the name. What's the big one in Utah that? Central Milling?
[38:02] Yes. Thank you. I've gotten some from Central Milling recently.
So, uh, those are like those three or four main places.
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[39:02] What? uh, what kind of whole wheat percentage are you kind of gravitating towards these days? You mill your own whole grains, you said, Do you have, like, a percentage? You aim for.
[39:15] Yeah, I shoot for about 25%. Okay, for all.
I mean, all of my loaves I haven't come up with, like, a I mean, I'd love to do, you know, like a 50 or 75%.
But I also don't know if that would be a really popular loaf or not in this community but there's really only one way to find out, I guess. And I just need to do it.
Now, that's interesting. I also have kind of settled on 25 myself. I know. I know.
A lot of other people of you know, experimented with, like, 40% and, um, that works for them, but yeah, as far as like what I have found works best in my oven and shaping.
And yeah, 25. That's kind of where I'm at to these days.
[40:01] Um, what are some of the like fundamental pieces of equipment that you use every day in your baker? You mentioned the Rofco.
Um, what else do you use on a regular basis?
Um, have the, you know, the Komo Bio. uh, grain mill.
The big one. And I mean, what's the most of standard stuff that probably most other people use?
I think I have anything that's like out of the ordinary, um, tubs that I bought a Target, And, um, the scale, of course.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's fairly easy. Kind of entry as far as, like, kind of the equipment you need, um, to get Yeah, it was Is there, like, one type of tool you wish you had?
If you could, You know, if you could get your hands on one thing right now to make your life easier, what would it be?
[40:51] I just wish I had some shelves.
[40:55] Almost all my stuff is kind of just, like pushed underneath my, like, shaping bench.
And it's like organ as organized as it can be, but,
if I had some shelves, though would be really nice, but I feel like I can't, you know, what's a small space like most people are dealing with? And so even when I would think I need something I'm like, where would I put it?
So I have had the issue of, like, sharing the refrigerator with my family. And so on Thursdays, I'm always, like, just It's like Tetris, you know, putting.
[41:31] I would be having the food all up on the one show. And that is impressive that you're able to bake 50 loaves a week without a second refrigerator.
Yeah, well, thankfully, it's been cold enough that I have been actually able to do some ambient proofing, which I totally just was like, I'm gonna try this tonight, and hopefully it all works out, even though I have to,
Like, people are relying on these loaves tomorrow.
Um, so, yeah, I don't wanna have to buy another fridge.
Basically, Yeah, I keep thinking like maybe at some point, I'm just gonna have to, like, find some Craigslist deal of someone wanting to get rid of refrigerator.
Um, So here's a question. I think I asked uh, Justin Gomez.
Um, and I'm curious, Like what you would would say, but, you know, kind of the beautiful thing about opening cottage bakery.
Is its such a reflection of each individual and their community and and their family, You know, And I'm just curious what kind of values or, like, ideals.
Do you do you, like, want people to think of or come to mind when they visit your bakery or eat your bread?
Huh? Interesting. Um.
[42:44] We have some people, enjoy it and enjoy it.
That's kind of unique experience of I mean, I wish there's many times where I wish I could be my customer, you know, like if there was someone I knew but,
I could walk to, I just think it's like the coolest thing.
You know, I'm kind of and I didn't like, do it intending on, you know, like I'm doing this because I wish somebody else was doing it.
But I wish I could be on the other side. And so I just want people to, like, experience this kind of unique situation, and that's like the response.
So that generally get is You know, I have this one customer who reminds me all the time She's like, This is just so cool. I'm just I'm just so excited to be a part of this Sameera delis asked.
If you have ever thought about becoming a full time baker, is that something is like part of your long term vision? Or are you just gotta playing it by here right now?
[43:42] I have, You know, I've been asked that question, and I don't see myself being a full time baker No.
Um I mean, I would It would be awesome to have, like, a totally separate space to do l bread.
But I would want it to be on our property, or at the very least, you know, like within walking distance from our home.
And even then, you know, I would have only really want to be open, like, two days a week and just kind of like, just still do what I'm doing.
Uh, and I've seen people do that and do it and be successful at it.
And so, yeah, I just kind of look to that model of because it's it can be, like, all consuming. I can see how it could be all consuming because I get really excited and I want to do all these things. And I mean, if I didn't have a family, I will.
I would probably fall into that this fine, but.
[44:38] Yeah, just for me. I I wouldn't wanna in.
[44:45] So let's talk a little bit more about your community there in Louisville. Um, kind of.
Well, let's maybe, like, start inward in branch outward.
Um, tell me about your family and how they kind of, like, supported you in this venture.
You know, I've really kind of started noticed a theme within our conversations and within our community that when people do start these things, like,
obviously families very much involved, um, and and really has to be on board with it.
What's been in kind of your experience with you, with your, you know, nuclear family.
I'm fortunate enough to have my husband, who is a business owner, and he I mean, he's just been so incredibly encouraging and supportive and helpful toe.
Just get me to think, um, think about l bread in ways that I probably wouldn't have otherwise and,
you know, just telling me basically when have a good idea or a bad idea or when I should, um.
[45:56] Like, when I have certain goals and if I should make them bigger or smaller. Um.
[46:04] And he's he's coming from a lot of experience and so that's really great. He's, you know, basically a living consultant.
That's, you know, Yeah, he's also a graphic designer.
So, like I had that in the bag and, um.
[46:20] My kids, I think it's funny because they are like, I mean, they love the bread that you did it all the time, but I feel like they're, like, kind of just catching on to that.
It's like a thing that I'm doing. You should you know, business. And Mom's a baker. No.
Oh, my goodness. They remember one time when my oldest or my oldest was like you.
You don't work like you don't know how to make money. And I was like.
[46:47] I mean, I tried not to be offended, but I kind of wanted to cry a little bit.
[46:53] That's ever That's different because, like my kids, I could do whatever I want all day long, and they don't know any different, you know?
But your kids are older and they're, like, kind of grow growing with you through this. Ah, you know, life stage. Or, you know, this big kind of yeah shop new chapter in your life.
Yeah, but now I mean, I had my oldest with me at the last market. I did. And now he's like, he can't stop talking about how I'm going to be famous someday which I'm like OK buddy.
Okay, buddy, let's reel it in a little bit. Um,
And, you know, my husband told him that I was gonna be interviewed tonight, and they were just like, Well, like, they just They were getting, like, so excited. .
[47:37] They're excited. They support their mom. They believe in their, Mom.
Yeah, they do. They also want to make money. So they asked all the time.
if they can help me with the bread so that they could make some money Oh, yeah, Yeah.
Say you can wash off the tubs and the dishes.
Yeah, there's the bottom. Uh, how has you can't talk about this a little bit already, but, um, your local neighborhood, you know, greater kind of Louisville area or community.
[48:14] How they kind of, like, received you. And like, can you talk more about? I guess that, like, kind of like that lady you were talking about, like, just who was like, Wow, this is a really cool and fun experience to, like, meet the people person who has made my bread.
Ah. Have you had more experiences like that? Are Yeah, I think in general people are excited.
You know, the I've only done two markets, and, um, you know both of them sold out within an hour or two,
and of course, I don't have a ton of things, but it still was like, Whoa, that, you know, that was just crazy and.
[48:54] You know, generally I get good feedback and people keep ordering bread.
And I, you know, I've been getting more new people, which is always exciting because it's kind of like, How did you hear about me?
And I think it's just because I don't advertise it all. And I don't I don't really put myself out there. It's just all been word of mouth up to this point.
That's great. But, you know, it's just It's the easy way to be No.
One, I guess. And so people just tell their friend. And I do hear stories occasionally of, um.
[49:28] Like people talking about l bread that like, I don't know these people and it's just it's kind of bizarre that people would be talking about it and I'm not there and they're They're kind of like talking about it like this is this little cool saying And,
um so it's it's kind of cool just to have this.
It's almost like a little secret club that only a certain amount of people know about, you know?
Yeah, yeah, it's fun to, like, introduce people to that, uh, you know, naturally leavened bread for the first time.
Yeah, I found that. That's, like kind of a foreign concept, you know?
And once they hear about it and taste it, it's just Yeah, it's kind of illuminating and, you know, they keep coming back for more.
So, um well, as is been the case recently, I keep going over the hour.
I I promise. My guests.
Um but I do want to kind of ask one final question, and I think it's a good one. Um, end on.
But if you know, if there was kind of one piece of advice you kind of wish you had before you started this whole cottage bakery journey.
Um, what would it be?
[50:41] Mmm.
[50:44] I knew you were gonna ask me this. And I said, Time to think about it. And I don't know.
[50:50] You know, I don't know if I have an answer. Honestly, Yeah, either.
I mean, are there like, are there Resources you wish you knew about or or maybe just resources you would recommend to people to check out. That was a question from Kathleen Blackley.
If if you could kind of maybe share some resource is that you had access to or found or while you were starting this.
[51:18] Yeah. So the the Instagram community, of course.
Just don't even know how I started just talking to people.
And you know what? I had questions.
I just kind of reached out, like soft. Anybody would answer.
And I read a lot of books and just really a lot of trial of air.
Which is kind of just how you do things when you're self taught you just, you know, just keep trying until you get do something that feels good to you because, you know, all of our lows are at least a little bit different from each other's.
And it's because we make him in a way that you know, we like.
And so, yeah, I really just books in the Internet where,
My biggest sources, you know, I took, like, one class with Sarah Owens when she was in town, but that was really just to meet her, er, because I had already kind of knew.
But I just feel like there's workshops all over the place right now. There's, you know, they're they're popping up all over the place, and I would I haven't personally done one of them yet.
I would love to, but that's like another way of getting more like hands on experience.
Um, e think, Yeah, I think in general especially, you know, cottage bakers are excited to share because I want to see other people doing it.
[52:41] Yeah, That's definitely a theme in our little community that people are just very generous and sharing.
Yeah, I just like today I was I've been, like, trying to figure out, like, what's like, what size, you know, batard should I be putting in this basket, and I kind of threw that out there, and I just had a ton of people share their answers and give me some pointers.
And so yeah, We have a very generous community, and you're part of that?
No. Well, and it's just been so fun, to
Uh, yeah. Connect with you in person today. Well, not in person, I guess.
Virtually, you know, have a conversation with you after all these years of kind of messaging and, you know, high fiving each other on instagram and but s Oh, thank you for coming on The show.
Is there is there, like, a way people can connect with you.
Um, And what's the best way for them to get some of your bread?
[53:37] So right now, Instagram is the only way that I So my bread, Um so, yeah, just instagram or my email is EL bread shop at Gmail.
And this year, hopefully, if you're local and you know gonna be doing more markets and some pop ups, so just cool keep your ears open.
Awesome. Well, I look forward to kind of following along your journey as I have been for several years now and kind of seeing where that takes you.
Um, but ah, thanks for coming on the podcast. Noel.
Yeah, course, it's been great. Thanks. Have a great night.
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[54:51] Music.